Peenie Wallie

If someone says they have a bomb, then it kind of complicates the situation. I am sure the Air Marshall did his best given the situation. It's a much harder job then say,,,,uh,,,,blogging.

As for the poor, poor bi-polar idiot who claimed to have a bomb...I give him a great big Jerry Seinfeldian "eh,,that's too bad...")

I tend to think (as I would think most people capable of rational thought would) if you are saying you have a bomb on you, threatening to blow up the plane, running from federal marshals, and reaching into the 'bomb bag' after you have been warned to stop, you are pretty much asking to be shot. I am sure that somehow in your world, this makes me narrow minded.

I don't know what airport I can say I have a BOMB in my bag, disobey security personel, and act in threating manner WITHOUT being shot.
However I would probably avoid THAT airport.

You win today's stupidest use of the term "nazis" prize.

Did you even read what you linked to? You seem to be a bit confused as to any facts regarding what happened. 1) They didn't murder him, 2) They didn't have him on the ground, and 3) They didn't over-react. The Air Marshalls did exactly the right thing. Way to armchair quarterback an extremely volatile situation without regards to the context. And had he actually had a bomb and detonated it, as he ran away, they'd all be dead. They had no way of knowing if he had a bomb because he ran off sticking his hand in his bag attempting to do something.

The only things you got right, through inference, is that there was "a guy" and "he was shot". Oh, and by the way, if you want to see what a police state actually is take a trip to North Korea.

If you don't take your meds and then act in a life-threatning manner, don't complain when you get shot.

Assasinate?

Very nice use of the Nazi card, but you forgot to blame George Bushitler, Dick Cheney, and Karl Rove by name. Minus two points. A reference to abu Ghraib would have added a tough of incoherent pinache.

Small deduction for failing to claim that the man wouldn't have been shot had the he been white and/or had the officer been properly fluent in Spanish and/or Arabic (for the future) and/or Esperanto.

Finally, you missed out on bonus points for degree of difficulty; you could have blamed George Bush for the man's mental illness by claiming he hasn't done enough to provide health care and/or educate the public on bipolar disease.

Net score: 7.25.

Dude, you are the most fucked up person ever. These air marshalls are not "nazis" you retard. They were just doing their job. This man shouted out "I have a bomb, I have a bomb." What do you think they would do? Stand there and think about the legal consequences if they shot this guy! Now, if you want people to die every time they go on a plane, then that is a different story

Wow...the comments are sure to leave a mark guy. My personal favorites are Steven's and, of course, Michael's for the scorecard...that is priceless.

When I read the trackback on ct.org I thought this was surely some sarcastic read but no, you surprised me. Some things to maybe work on however:

1) Find a spell checker

2) Fact checking

3) Reading comprehension

4) anger management/counseling for your BDS.

I, for one, am in favor of shooting to kill whenever an innocent unarmed person on an airplane claims to have a bomb and then reaches for absolutely anything.

While I disagree with the alarmist manner in which you posted the information, I agree with the basic idea. The reports I've heared only go as far as saying that "witnesses heard him muttering something and that it sounded like he said the word "bomb" the media mainstream TV media is going crazy trying to convince everyone that we are safer because there are people for whom "doing their job" involves killing people for acting suspicious.

You may say, "yeah what if he did have a bomb, then they all would have died, it would have been horrible." but he didn't he was just an innocent guy freaking out because he didn't have his meds. maybe he was saying that he needed to call his mom, and was reaching into his bag for a cell phone.

I tell you one thing, I'm now oficially more scared of the government than I am of terrorists now. they keep setting up this imaginary enemy to keep us scared. you know why? scared people buy more. in a consumer based economy such as our own, if poeple stop buying shit they don't need so that they feel safer, the whole economy collapses. we're all maried to this Idea now and we're going down with the ship. this is just a small example of the effects of a fucked up system such as we have.

whew...

sorry, got a little carried away. anyway, give the poster a break. he calls them "nazi's" you call them "law enforcement agents." you say terrorist, where some would say freedom fighter. it all comes from your point of view. killing is killing, no matter what the circumstances, it is wrong.

I'm going to guess this blogger is not older than 15, and does a massive amount of drugs. His/her's parents are probably divorced and he probably thinks the feds are out to get everyone. What a mindless moonbat.

Oh please!

You get on an airplane, and say that you have a bomb...its not unlike screaming "fire" in a movie theater.

Anyone with any perspective in security knows that to "ask" if this idiot had a bomb was to endanger someone else's life.

The TSA'ers may not be the brightest bulbs in the box, but to call them "nazi's" is the ultimate in the 1st Amendment.

What kind of country do we live in where a citizen can't scream out that he has a bomb and run madly up the jet-way!

Int is freaking 1984 man,,,,freakin 1984!

Comparing this to yelling "Fire" in a crowded movie theatre is an intersting analogy. When was the last time you head of someone being shot dead for yelling "Fire"? My question now is, what are the rules of engagement? If they truly have the right to kill us for saying the word "Bomb", then shouldn't they post a message saying that on the plane. "Ladies and gentlemen...please keep in mind that if you say the word BOMB, you'll be killed instantly." That might be information you want to share?

First off, this man was not shot just because he said the words "I have a bomb". It was he actions after the statement that dictated what happened to him. After the air marshals attempted to stop him he fled and when the Air Marshal caught up with him the man attempted to reach into the bag, forcing the Air Marshal to use deadly force.

As a 25 year veteran police officer and law enforcement instructor, I find the Marshal's actions, if the incident was relayed accurately, to be completely justifiable. The Air Marshal could not take the chance that the man was bluffing or that the woman who claimed to be his wife and claimed that he was mentally ill and had not been taking his meds, was telling him the truth. She could have been part of the bombing plot for all he knew.

As a matter of fact, had this Air Marshal shot this man in the back when he was running away he still would have been justified because the man posed a threat to the public at large if he had a bomb in his bag because the man would have gotten to other parts of the airport where more people were moving about.

Law enforcement officers are justified in using deadly force anytime a suspect presents the threat of death or serious bodily injury to the officer or to the general public. A man running away with a bomb in his bag is definetly a threat to the general public, therefore deadly force was justified.

"I, for one, am in favor of shooting to kill whenever an innocent unarmed person on an airplane claims to have a bomb and then reaches for absolutely anything."

Consider that we know the answers after the fact, but the guy who dropped the hammer had a different set of data to make his judgement from.

Change that statement to:

I, for one, am in favor of shooting to kill whenever an (innocent or malicious) (armed or unarmed) person on an airplane claims to have a bomb and then reaches for (a bomb, weapon, or absolutely anything).

Without knowing those things, if a guy is trying to forcibly board an airplane, claims he has a bomb, does not stop when directed to by security, and reaches into a bag as he is being chased...there's only 1 answer. You do not *know* whether he is malicious or innocent, you do not *know* whether he is armed or not, but you assume that he is malicious and that he is armed.

You have to.

Would you please do us a favor and keep your ignorance clothed and in the closet. Seeing it naked is pretty revolting.

I'm sure all the idiot commenters, as well as the blog owner, would be screaming that the Marshalls suck for not killing the guy if he HAD blown up the plane.

AF: what you are apparently unclear on is that NOBODY KNEW THE GUY DIDN'T HAVE A BOMB. If a cop tells you to stop moving, you STOP MOVING. It's that simple. If the guy was bipolar and was just reaching for his meds, well, clearly, he shouldn't have been off them.

Peenie Wallie, have you ever lived in a real police state? I have--I lived in the Soviet Union for several years, and spent quite a bit of time in PR China. Buddy, you've got a *lot* to learn about what police states are really like.

"personally am not afraid of terrorists. I am, however, deathly afraid of the overzealous police, FBI, CIA, BATF, and now the Federal Air Marshalls. "

Good point, lets check the score card:
Terrorist hijackers- 2986
Federal Airmarshals- 1

Yeh, I suppose that is a rational fear.

"The Federal Marshalls assasinated an innocent citizen in Miami. These idiots murdered an unarmed passenger once they had him on the ground."
Followed by:
"For all the mental dwarfs that are claiming this poor victim said he had a bomb and reached into his bag, I'd like to point out that you have no idea what he said and whether or not he reached into a bag. You're taking the Air Marshall's word for it, and taking it on faith at that."

Sounds like you didnt have any trouble coming to a conclusion before an investigation. Guess that would also make you a mental dwarf?

"Finally, if you people are all so deathly afraid of bombs, why do you possibly allow yourselves to go onto subways, buses, and into grocery stores without a securocrat sanctioned to murder without retribution at your side? Why limit your safety zone to the time you're on a plane or in the airport? Why not demand that Air Marshalls protect you around the clock?"
One: there is no such thing as a "Securocrat sanctioned to murder without retribution" in this country and you know it.
Two: Look around next time you are in a subway, grocery store, mall, walking on the street etc. See those guys in uniforms with badges and GUNS? I would assume the reason there are police and security guards instead of air marshals is because YOUR NOT IN THE AIR. Idiot.

I'm pretty sure this is meant to be sarcasm (at least I hope so).

Wow. After reading some of his other stuff, it's apparant he's not being sarcastic, he really is that stupid.

First of all it is spelled MARSHAL, not Marshall.

If you can't bother getting the fine points correct why bother at all.

Secondly, the Marshals acted appropriately. What they did was lawful and, if anything, over and above what they are required to do. They identified themselves and gave the man a chance to comply with their orders -- something that is not even required under the law since the fact that he said he had a bomb is enough legal justification to use deadly force in and of itself. They could have just shot him with no warning whatsoever and been within their legal rights.

Had you been on that plane my guess is you would think differently although I doubt you would ever admit it.

Finally, I have to address the moronic comment by AF, "killing is killing, no matter what the circumstances, it is wrong."

Ever hear of self-defense, son? Are you saying that you would not kill someone who was trying to kill you or the ones you love? Somehow I feel sure you would and if you wouldn't I feel sorry for your loved ones.

A confused jumble of paranoid ramblings--- How true

I'd like to point out that you have no idea what he said and whether or not he reached into a bag. You're taking the Air Marshall's word for it, and taking it on faith at that.

And you have no evidence to the contrary. You are taking it on faith that the marshall acted incorrectly.

Amazed that this wasn't an attempt at satire. Dude, at least if you're going to write something so idiotic, put up a Google Ad so you can rake it in when everybody comes by to laugh at your ass.

Lemme see if I have this right: we've got hundreds of Marshals flying on thousands of flights with millions of passengers over four friggin' years, and we have one shooting to show for it? Worst. Police. State. Ever.

Many thanks for the comments from the mindless dolts and sycophants that stumbled onto this site.

Well apart from thanking you for the welcome, I would have hoped that you would not have behaved so 'bizarrely' without knowing all the facts.

I don't know what happened EXACTLY and will wait until I do before running amok. Perhaps you might try that 'waiting' technique before breaking out the 'Nazis' analogy for Airport Marshalls.

If the guy was behaving suspiciously and refused to comply with legitimate instructions to cease, then it remains HIS problem that he might have failed to take his meds. The fact that he was perhaps loopy and ON A PLANE would indicate that he should probably not have out in public at all.

To expect someone to 'take the chance' he was just 'loopy' in a situation like this is unrealistic.

But Let's all just count to 10 and not jump to conclusions.

If it was a 'bad' shooting we will all find out soon enough. BUT the victim being 'loopy' does not make it a 'bad' shooting. It makes it sad but that's about all. He appears to have been a victim of his own folly and carelessness.

You Nazi crap is offensive and at this point totally unwarranted.

There is a parallel incident, long forgotten, which occurred about a year before 9/11. A psychotic man, off his meds, was on a flight (Southwest Airlines is all I remember, perhaps Google will tell all). He became upset, then enraged and began pounding on the crew’s cabin door. Three men from among the passengers wrestled him to the ground. He was still fighting. They sat on him to restrain him. In the process, the man died from suffocation. The incident was publicized (otherwise I wouldn’t know about it, as I heard through regular news channels), but soon forgotten. Again, unfortunate (the word “tragic” gets overused for these things), but one of the better outcomes out of the universe of possibilities. Putting yourself in the public transportation world chemically impaired (by not having your meds, or by being looped on drugs or alcohol) kills at least 20,000 people a year. This latest incident sounds like one more.

Land sakes! "Assasinated"? "Murdered"? Even other weirdos like you must be commenting to you on how stupid you sound.

Hmm. Judging by your links, I guess your post was an attempt at satire.

You might wanna read a book on how to do it.

Innocent? Running around screaming you have a bomb is not innocent. Dude got what he deserved and we are all better off for it.

Peenie Wallie, you are just about the most incredible idiot I have ever encountered on a forum. I will post my reasons for this statement one by one:
1. Calling the air marshals idiots demonstrates that you are one. Air marshals are some of the most highly trained and responsible of all federal agents. They don't "go around shooting people." This is the first time since 1983 that ANYONE was shot by the feds in an incident involving an aircraft, and he was shot by the FBI, NOT Air Marshals.
2. Another demonstration of your vast ignorance is your statement that Alito supports the right of private citizens to own machine guns. You obviously don't even know what a "machine gun" is, since NO ONE in the gun control issue, on either side, supports an average person's right to own one. A machine gun is a weapon that can fire more than one round with a single pull of the trigger, not one that "looks" like a military weapon.
3. As for the "claims" that this fruitcake on the plane said he had a bomb and no one knows what he really said, I hate to break the news to you, but witnesses have stated that he ran up and down the aisle saying he had a bomb BEFORE he even got off the plane. So it's not the Air Marshal's word we are taking on faith.
4. And finally, NO federal agent kills with impunity, and there is no doubt that there will be an investigation, which will, no doubt establish that the Air Marshals did their job as it should be done.
So, basically, idiots like you need to go sit in your corner and color. You annoy those of us who actually think before we speak.

Cappmann,

In fact, ">Judge Alito does support the right of individuals to own fully-automatic machine guns. As in Class III. I collect firearms. I know the difference. You may want to check your facts before you post such patently incorret statements in the future.

I've done a lot of airline traveling in my life and am stunned to see that someone is stunned about this guy getting shot. Not only does he try to convince others he had a bomb (maybe HE was convinced he had a bomb), but he then REACHES INTO HIS BAG when he is told to drop to the ground.

Maybe he missed these instructions while going in:

"Don't joke about having a bomb or firearm. Don't discuss terrorism, weapons, explosives, or other threats while going through the security checkpoint. The mere mention of words such as "gun," "bomb," etc., can compel security personnel to detain and question you. They are trained to consider these comments as real threats."

The bi-polar people I've known have been capable of remembering to take their medicine. When they don't, their loved ones are supposed to remind them. This guy and his wife made a fatal mistake. Tragic? Yes. But now you know what will happen if you get on a plane and lead people to think you are a terrorist. Good luck with that!

Merry Christmas,

Barbara Lewis Hare Krishna Beauregard

What's your hat size? I have a roll of tinfoil here with your name on it.

I hope this is satire.

Police state?

In a real police state, you'd risk rotting in prison or a labor camp for your post. I've spent a fair amount of time in police states and I can assure you, you haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about.

"My point is that I don't believe that Federal Air Marshalls should be running around shooting people."

Right, and everybody knows there's been hundreds of THOSE incidents recently. Whole 747s landing with blood dripping from their entryways, and just a single Air Marshall standing in first class, reloading.

In fact, there's never been an example of an Air Marshall using his/her weapon in HISTORY. This is the first time.

Face it, the guy had a gun pointed at him, and he STILL refused to cooperate, and apparantly reached into his bag. There are more than a few ear-witnesses that heard the marshalls give this person MANY chances to give up. THEY DID THE RIGHT THING.

But you think that this is an example of a Police State, because that's what you want it to be. It's a shame that he was off his meds; it's a shame that he reacted in a stupid manner; it's a shame that the Air Marshall is going to live with the fact that he killed a man.

It's not a shame that he did his job, and did it correctly.

It IS a shame that you're a titanium-plated loon, however.

Hmmm the plot thickens. Now an eyewitness has come out and has a different story. Check out:
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1138965,00.html

All the facts are these:

1) He ran saying, "I have a bomb"
2) Federal agents told him to go to the ground and put his hands on his head. He did neither.
3) He reached into his bag, you know, the one he said he had a bomb in.

Should the agents have waited? I thought so.

BTW, you are an idiot.

From the Time article linked to by "californican" above:

"I never heard the word 'bomb' on the plane," McAlhany told TIME in a telephone interview. "I never heard the word bomb until the FBI asked me did you hear the word bomb. That is ridiculous." Even the authorities didn't come out and say bomb, McAlhany says. "They asked, 'Did you hear anything about the b-word?'" he says. "That's what they called it." (emphasis added)

Is the "b-word" bigger?

And is the "f-word" FBI?

"Update 5: My next prediction is that they will come to the conclusion that he never said he had a bomb. Don't look now, but some passengers are coming out and saying just that. He never said he had a bomb. Doh!"

You can't read? It says ONE passenger out of almost 200. The man was shot OUTSIDE on the jetway. What if the passenger that was shot said something about a bomb at the front of the plane instead of the back where this ONE passenger that you linked to was sitting? You are a tool.

YOU = IDIOT

That about sums it up, and I was much more fair to you than you were to the air marshalls in particular, and police in general.

If you really lived in a police state, your ass would be in jail for sedition, and your website shut down.

Trying turning down the shrill and turning up the logic.

Twit.

News from an actual police state, to give you some perspective.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/09/international/asia/09cnd-china.html?hp&ex=1134190800&en=a42a6c1e282d9ade&ei=5094&partner=homepage